At this time of year my location in Boca Raton, Florida, is super appealing and a lot of Canadians, like my good friend Glenn Sutherland, who’s on with us today, have ventured in investing across borders. Now many people, as we know, have invested across borders, just because they want to buy a vacation home – like in Florida that’s a very common reason, but others like Glenn have delved into it and have found the opportunity to invest in us real estate to be much more lucrative much more appealing and in many ways, and much more available than investing in Canada, and this is becoming even more relevant and apparent as the Canadian market values continue to be impossible for most investors like Glen, who is outside of Toronto – about two hours away, what’s the average property value there Glenn?
I’d say like probably $600,000 houses and those that should be almost torn down at least 300,000.
Yeah. It’s funny you say that because my mom through this whole COVID has been trying to talk me into moving back to Toronto and I’m like well, where would I live like in Toronto, those $600,000 houses are probably about 1.2 or 1.5, million, and tear downs at 500,000 is just commonplace. You can’t even touch the Toronto market, literally can’t even touch it for under $600,000 and that’s for a little tiny shack type house in outskirts of the city. So, people in Ontario particularly, which is both Glen and my home province, and in other provinces as well but particularly Ontario, have just found that the US market is so much more lucrative. So I’m going to let Glenn introduce himself – we actually met on Facebook, I believe. And just like that and we became fast friends, as I do with many many Canadians and Glenn is working on his E2 visa, not sure if that’s public knowledge and if it’s not so Glenn is in the midst of working on his visa and he’s actually an amazing testimonial to why I do what I do and we’ll talk about that a little bit about some of the obstacles that Glenn has met in the process, and why the process isn’t done yet and just talk a little bit about how to make that process simpler and more streamlined for people going forward, which is really what I’m so excited about working with Glenn. Why don’t you introduce yourself and say Hi
I’m Glenn Sutherland, I’m the host of A Canadian Investing in the US. It’s a podcast about teaching people how to invest in the States, as well as just interviewing people who are doing it just to share stories. I think people connect with stories especially newbies like first properties. People feel more comfortable when they see other people going through the same thing. So it’s just a good little community, to teach people how to do this and learn some of the advantages of going to the States.
And what is your background, outside of investing in the US.
I guess background and computers background in accounting. Yeah, I kind of do that, that kind of stuff as well so it is the accounting is complimentary but I’m not a CPA I have like a diploma. So I still hire a CPA to do everything because I want it done properly. But I can understand everything and I can you know do bookkeeping and all kinds of stuff myself but honestly you don’t want a second job, you would prefer to hire a professional to do hire a professional after method. You know, but, but having that ability to read numbers and understand numbers is certainly a big plus when it comes to investing in real estate when you say, Oh definitely. It is a numbers game right it’s, it’s a numbers game and then even just the purchasing especially and then understanding the ongoing and understanding where problems are and being able to do like a return on equity analysis every year, which a lot of people forget about that doing that calculation. That’s why I keep bringing in is that it’s a lot of people have properties that have appreciated a lot and now they want cash flow, much better because rents went up, but they’re always forgetting about how much equity is left in that property and at some point, it makes sense to sell the property because your opportunity costs is sunk in that equity in that property. Yeah. Tell me when you first started investing were you investing in the US, what were you doing?
No, I started like most people, in my backyard. The first ones I bought some in Waterloo and Kitchener which is like the two hours west of Toronto. And I got really big into the Cambridge market, and I bought a bunch of duplexes and townhouses a bunch of stuff like that. And that’s how I kind of go along with that and my, what kind of story goes, is that I’ve had a tenant That was excellent, and they moved moving a couple hours away. Okay, so they moved a couple hours away and during that process I asked have you bought a property yet, they said no ,so I bought a property for them to live in. And so they were great tenants so they’ve done incredible work for that property over the last, I don’t know how long we’ve had it five years or so, and whenever I get used to like being a part of my property and I listened to a lot of people back five years ago, podcasting was mostly dominated by at least real estate podcast was dominated by Americans. There were tons of American shows by listened to American shows. And that’s what got me into the market and I thought, you know what, this isn’t that different than the Canadian markets and a couple intricacies that you’ll have to work your way through galleries tax taxes financing. But, yeah, once, once you got past that you can just jump right in and you can take advantage of some of the advantages they have right in the States. And there are a lot of advantages.
Glen, I’m not sure if you’re even aware but I’m partnered with a Canadian company out of Calgary, and we are, we teach real estate investing specifically in the Canadian model is agreement for sale. So, one of the things that we noticed and here in the US that compliment comparable model is called subject. And the challenge is that a lot of American, like you were saying was so heavily dominated by Americans, my partner in Calgary, originally invested with an American company in the US, that had no understanding or concept of how your, Your us investments would impact your Canadian taxes – Canada Revenue Agency and all of the tax issues and all of that, they just were like here, this is how it works, invest in the US, have a nice day. Right. And that’s the same thing kind of like you that turnkey us model, which has no concept of how did that turnkey impact your Canadian everything. How does it impact you as a Canadian, that’s a very big challenge a part of why I started doing what I do, because I am a Canadian and American lawyer and a realtor down here and can really help to navigate that because at the end of the day, for example you know what a 1031 exchanges right at 1031 exchanges for our listeners that don’t know, is, is when you take a property, and you sell that property, but dependency property is another property and you take the proceeds and invest them into another property within certain time frame, you identify the property in 45 days of closing 180. You never touch the money. If you don’t do one property or one, it can also move from one property to two properties as long as it doesn’t go into your pocket. And so the challenge is that anybody, anybody, no matter what country you’re from on paper can qualify for that 1031 in the US. So lots of Canadians would say oh wait, I can get that and you and they can, if they’re set up properly through a corporate structure but most are not so they would be told. Oh, yeah. Don’t worry, you can invest personally and qualified, and they can qualify but then the case CRA disqualifies it so it’s become good and it’s a total disaster. And that’s a very common thing. It’s also very common for people that are investing in the US to not have proper tax advice and when you don’t have proper tax advice. You aren’t going to deal with a big tax bill. Whereas, why are you developing this business right Glen like in the US if you want to have a huge tax bill that kind of defeats the purpose right. Definitely. Yeah, tell us about your experience with that and how you modify your approach for the, for the taxes.
Yeah. It’s just the whole thing of like, Okay, I’m a Canadian investing in the US . This model doesn’t work let’s modify it, how does it work, how do we make it work. Yeah so financing I guess we’ll go into first financing one of the big things. In all honesty, it’s probably unless you’re dealing with one of the Canadian banks, which is going to be, if you’re going to deal with them, it’s going to be state specific. So you can’t just go I’m just gonna use t everywhere in the US, because that doesn’t happen. They’re all they all land in certain states, and they’re picky. So, and the thing is you’re gonna still be if we mean one of the reasons you’re going to the States, is because you got bottlenecks because, oh your debt service ratio got out of whack because these rental properties and some other things aren’t working well so the Canadian banks aren’t gonna lend to you. So going there and then using the Canadian banks isn’t going to get you any farther ahead. So you got to prepare yourself to ideally work with some hard money. Some brokers some banks down there. So, if you want to work with them in most cases, it’s not all cases, but you’re gonna want to have a corporate structure, because then you’re gonna get around some of the Fannie and Freddie stuff, and they’re going to be getting corporate loans and or for national program right, you’re going to be working into a different, different areas, because you’re going to call off the start. When you’re working ,you’re going to call around called Bank of America, called the biggest banks, and they’re going to say no, we don’t do that. Right. So you’re gonna be working with these smaller banks and you’re going to. Ideally, you’re going to be. Once you get smarter about this, you’re going to have a corporate structure and people go I don’t want to have that expensive, they’re not expensive to set up these corporate structures, people got blown in their mind. I know some people go and set them up themselves and like 200 bucks, I would not recommend that.
Oh please call me please.
Yes, I would hire, get a CPA or an attorney to do it for you. Then, because there is intricacies for having as a real estate Corporation compared to other things. And I’m sure I don’t do it myself so I’m sure there’s some intricacies that having been a foreign national to it as well, because even to get our di ns which is like the tax ID number for a corporation. If you’re an American, you can go to the site and it’ll give it take like five minutes. Yeah, whereas online, you’re done. America as a Canadian It’s not like that kind of like, wait, like, usually about a month, but now with COVID is like two months or more, to get your numbers, but go back to track backtrack to the financing part. So once you have your loan to a corporation, sometimes, depending which kind of lender you’re using a lot of hard money lenders are going to be dealing with for national programs and they’re going to do an asset based lending. So it’s not based on you know how much money you personally make how much debt you’re carrying, although some of these things can help your interest rate if you have very low debt you have lots of money. It can help you. Really high credit score in Canada, some of them will pull credit score in Canada, some of them. Some of them don’t care. But if you’re going to do asset-based one is going to be based on how that property is performing or will perform, the better the rate will be as it is performing rather than how it could perform on so the more boxes you can check as good things, lower your interest rate will be. And that’s one of the advantages of partnering with someone who’s already doing this because one of the boxes, your experience. And that’s a big box. So they’re they’re going to be scared to lend to someone who’s never done this before. For them it’s a scary thing you’re out of country. It’s a non-recourse loan with non-recourse means is back after you. They’re coming back to that court, which the court may only have that property and there’s no assets, right, no nothing there right, you can empty the Corp out. So, the risk is a lot higher to them. So, by partnering with someone who has the experience they can see this person has more skin in the game such a down payment, they have these other properties they are building a business, and they have been performing on other loans and notes and stuff like that they can check history on other things. So I know that that’s basically financing is where I would go with that. Some of the reasons to even go into the United States, I made a couple quick notes for that one. The lower taxes which you touched on, people don’t realize the difference, because a lot of times you know you’re looking at your balance statement or balance sheet, and you’re just looking your cost is some of these costs are phenomenally lower, you’re paying like $500, a year in property taxes instead of like five or seven or $1,000 a month. Yeah, it changes things a lot and your bottom line. Right. Yes, I mean that’s not very open, tax taxes Ontario is literally out of control and if you’re in Toronto proper, so you can pay 50,000 on a $500,000 home and if you’re in Toronto proper it’s double that. So think about, I mean here you pay like literally five to to transfer profit. Yes, and I, and people have asked me that when I first property down there. What’s the, I don’t see land transfer tax in there and I’m like, because it’s, it’s a made-up tax when Ontario, it doesn’t exist in other provinces even, they just made it up, and for some reason Ontarians people are not upset about it, they’re like yeah lazy, please take a whole bunch of my money every time I change. And then tax me if it’s a rental property tax me as a capital gain. On top of that, I don’t have 1031 exchange money governments, and we’re okay with it. Right. You’re paying for it and paying for it every day. So, one taxes low entry cost, and that’s not totally true depends where you’re investing. If you’re like, in the Midwest. Oh yeah, I picked up properties for eight grand five grand. People go buy property flipping can buy land, you can buy a gas station land it’s completely contaminated in Canada for five minutes.
So there’s all and now that now there’s going to be so much inventory because of all the subject twos and the people that aren’t paying their mortgages down here. It’s just a completely different market and it’s just, it’s 10 times the size as well, which is, you know, another factor. And that’s one thing I didn’t have on my list was the tax deeds and the tax liens because people don’t realize and foreclosures. It’s not the famous composers in Canada are not the same producers in Canada sell for market price. Nine. No, not in the states you heard, usually there is not one right up getting a discount. No matter. Yes. These properties these opportunities these distressed properties. The market is really opening up for them because people are not paying the mortgages are starting to call them is going to be a big problem and the bank doesn’t want the inventory the banks don’t want the inventory they do, they want you to buy those properties so they are selling them, they’re going through selling them pennies on the dollar oftentimes, and I am already starting in negotiations with short sales people, what a short sale is people are going to sell their property for lower for a lower price than what’s on the property, and people go, that’s insane because they’re in a hot, it’s in a hot market right now, for real estate. The market is doing really well if you want to sell properties. It’s a seller’s market, you can do very well, and people will widen their short sales have just got themselves in a bad situation. I leverage and then borrowed on the house and stack loans on the house and they can’t pay myself in sometimes.
And so there is ability to do that so you can negotiate with the three way with the, The seller in the bank and come to an agreement where the bank is willing to take a loss to get someone else to buy it, rather than trying to sell it on the market, because it’s cleaner. It didn’t have to go through all this stuff I’m guessing. I’m more on the other side. So, I see the events is for me to get a property at a discount. So, we’ve been way off topic, there’s a bunch of good ones their landlord laws, but that’s state specific. So, definitely. You can do this in Canada too There’s certain provinces are you Brunswick, Alberta federal laws right but for. No, Ontario is not a very tenant-friendly province. And one of the biggest mistakes I see for Canadians going to buy properties in the States, is they pick another tenant friendly state, and I always. Why are you in that state I tried to be polite, but why did you decide to invest there. Well, if you’re going to go across the border, why not pick the best you could possibly pick why pick something that’s going to have similar laws to where you are now. But if you’re curious like how do I figure out which one’s good. I did a podcast on it but even still, if you want to just google it just take top 10 landlord friendly states, there’s your list. Right, your top 15, they go and some of them I think there’s a lot of middle ground versus like the evictions are 30 days I wanted the states, because, you know, if you’re Texas Georgia, or Florida, Michigan, you can go very, very fast evictions and those ones when you go into the you know the Midwest which is most to me, you know, the 30 day evictions and there’s different intricacies every, every single province, or every single state, or all have different things but do some very slight research, even before you go and buy it. No, because your property, likely running with tenants. There’s always stuff that can go wrong. You want to you want to be buying where you’re gonna have less problems if things do go wrong. You want to ensure an advantage of your property buying tool, or do sometimes just buy as I do. Right now I think I have more than half of my renovations right now our flips. So, I was in all buy and hold mode, and are buying renovate refinance and hold right and I was in that pattern is kept buying and appointing and collecting the roster while you have a lot of work, and you’re like, I got this cash flow, but I never really got like the payday right you know you don’t get the chunks of money. And oh honestly I read properties as well because it’s like gambling, just to save and keep on replenishing. Exactly. So I wanted to have now money, middle money and end money on every deal. So, a great way to do that is like a rent to own or to be a land contract or a lease option. So you’ll get a down payment for a property to have an exit fee of a predetermined selling price you get cash flow is higher than regular rental cash flow, and often you can take the repairs and put it onto the tenant, because they’re not a tenant. There are leases, so it’s a little bit different because they have a contract to buy. And so there’s some advantages to doing stuff like that. I also like the mix strategies right you won’t want to be like just all buy and hold the first of all you might even get stuck unless you’re doing a birth. So, some birth listeners are gonna know just what I was saying a second ago. Buy renovate rent refinance. Sometimes you can refinance before you put the tenant in, and then repeat. But, yes, you’re basically what the purpose is, did you want me buying discounted properties buying problems, putting a renovation, or creating value. So it doesn’t actually mean, it might be like our favorite ones are adding a bedroom, converting an ad converting a garage to a bedroom and bath, to then call vote against other things. Or you find dilapidated houses and you fix them up. That’s a lot more work process, higher money but stressful. Use a value on the property, so that whenever you go to refinance. Ideally, you’re not perfect work, to give you all of your money back. So that you have all your money to go do another deal, and it kept your cash flow down because you’ve leveraged up, that’s technically high, but compared to your purchase price you’re way above it. You want to like your purchase price and your rent and all that money back. So you’re higher than that, but you were just bought the property and Kathy, technically cashflow more but it gets back to that return on equity thing where you’re, you have a lot of equity left in the property, you really want to do is strip the money to the equity is wandering building phase and stripping it out by more property to span a span of span. And once you have a cash flow, that’s close to what your goal is, then you might want to start paying some of them off and de leveraging, but to get up to where you want to get you really want to have the leverage. And I would honestly say you want something like lease options or flips mixed in. So you have big chunks of money so if you wanted to buy say popcorn houses which are like little cheap houses a cashflow crazy. You can never pay a mortgage on them. So there’s $20,000 houses in the Midwest rent for like seven or $900 a month. Have you ever put a mortgage on because think all your money and if you bought it all those are essentially running the money. But then, maybe with the de leveraging you can buy some of those, and it’s a little safer so he has some sort of, it’s not from the leverage breaks down, make yourself more comfortable and make yourself feel to sleep at night, but that’s basically what you want now money. Soon money and future money. And if you’re getting into only one of those categories. If you’re doing all now mine would you be flipped. Then you have a job, you just exchange a job for a job. And if you have all like later money and some cash flow, you’re going to be late and I’m not going to stay in your job and keep working there forever because you’re like, even though you’re oh I make this much money and now I make a little bit more it’s like I really can I leave though, because you know, something happens, that’s not quite big enough for insurance, that’s, that’s all on me. I didn’t make any money this month, I can’t make a payment mortgage in Canada. Yeah. So, anyway, there’s my long rant. I have a question for you, so interesting because we’re talking about how the podcasts and everything, were and still are but, but were very very us focused and they look at the like the Toll Brothers or something like that, whether we, you know, whether it’s doing the splits and these beautiful homes were all phones in Toronto right. Yep. So it’s, it’s kind of amazing when all these when they’re taking people around and looking at homes and flipping them and everything, a half of those are in Canada, because of the Canadian, the way the Canadian market is but yet the real estate investing opportunities are here in the US. And on that note, you, unlike most people give away your training which you won’t be doing for long. But tell us how that works. Well, yeah. So we do a weekly show. And basically, like I think last week’s show we literally just talked about, subject to or like a subject right we like talking about a certain kind of financing or short sales, we don’t know what they are, how do you do them. Are you following them How do you negotiate with the thing, and cover a subject, and then they interview people. Suddenly, like on the podcast. But if you want one on one coaching what I usually say buy something with me, right, because it’s, it’s free then people go well how much you charge for coaching and they’re like, that’s just interrupt you when he says buy something with me it doesn’t mean buy a coaching package. Yet, right, it means buy property with Glen joint venture and you’re going to learn as you go through the process so I’m going to give you the extra value of his knowledge and experience, because you’re partnering with him. So you’re going to benefit from Glenn’s knowledge and experience and training, all connected with the opportunity to also make money on a joint venture that he’s betting. So, if he’s vetted it that’s almost all of his experience, coupled with yours and also then you’re going to get access to financing because Glenn has access more so than the first time investor. Yes, like exactly that. So you’ll get a better financing loan product. We will do likely either flip or a perfect birth, will be the goal. And to get your money back, so that you can decide to do another one with me or you can go do it yourself. Afterwards, and people are like, Well, why don’t you just coach me, I don’t like. So, instead of paying like 20,000 for a house and we do the whole thing, or 50,000 or whatever it is. You’d rather just pay it to me and not get anything back. But just so you get the house, and it was like what’s it like I mean, we’ll make 20 grand each, and so it still comes back to fear, fear, fear, fear of getting your feet wet fear of that first investment. What is stopping you from making the leap. And the reality is that when you have a partner, like the people I bring on my show, like the men who really has been there done that, and has written, various books but has the pedigree of experience to prove that like the reality is, Glenn, so I was on Glenn’s show right before I went on the marketers cruise was January. The end of January, I remember it was like very early in the morning and I was like completely out of this background, my background wasn’t good. It was kind of before coronavirus so we weren’t as, as I wasn’t as much of a zoom expert as I am now, and yet still because of Glenn’s following, at least once every other week, I get a call from somebody that says I saw you on blend show. I saw you on Glenn’s show because Glenn has a following and it’s important to know that because that will also help you. It’s like anything you know I don’t want to go into business with somebody who’s never been in business before I don’t want to be coached by coach who’s never run a business before I don’t want to invest in real estate with somebody who’s never invested in real estate before you know I’m aware and I’m a realtor, and I’m an investor. The reality is that, not just because you’re a realtor doesn’t mean you can be a good investor and just because you’re an investor doesn’t mean you can be a great finder of opportunities, Glenn is all of those things and because of that, he brings a huge amount of value to what you’re doing and for me, I would rather give 20,000 to Glenn, and have a return on my investment at the end and get the coaching and to just give this one 1002 grandmas I’ve done so many years for business coaches, 30,000, a year. Thank you very much. At the end of the day I got nothing to show for it except maybe a new CRM, that also paid money, you know. So it’s a brilliant model and grant, tell us. So, if you don’t mind, I’d love to talk with you a little bit about what made you decide. And again, this is completely up to you what made you decide that you wanted to actually get a visa Why did you decide that you needed or wanted an E two treaty investor visa. So, the original one was I was trying to get financing and we don’t want the we’re dealing mostly with these corporate loans or hard money loans, in the interest rates higher rates right high set of fees, you’re paying people for this. And like just to get full disclosure, usually when you start with the policy and seven half I’m down to about six now because of the experience, but it’s gonna be more expensive money, and I originally was banking with Royal Bank in the United States down in Georgia, and I switched to a local bank in Huntsville, Alabama. And because I wanted to get onto their, their shortlist I found this. When you buy a money, or properties in the States, you get a HUD statement, and often you can see who is on both sides you can see where their loans are, and I was buying some very cheap properties and the coolest the bank on the bank. Now, I wanted to get in touch with them. Once I got my banking over there and building relationships people also money in the account, make sure they’re very happy with me, and I’m talking to so what’s the criteria, I want to be able to get these really low value loans, and what kind of interest rate some kind of thing to do. And basically this a wolf, you can get your social security number, then we could lend to you through Fannie and with that kind of program they have, they would do 90% loan to value on purchases and 80 to 85 on cash refi, which may not sound like a lot, but that is really high in the United States. Yes. Yes. And then the rates would go way down, they were saying, 3%, three and a half or depending on some things. So if I could get my social security number, and build a FICO score of at least that is at 650 or 700 and then, yeah, in that range anyway, then I could get into these loan programs. So the next thing was how do I get a social security number and I went googling away on the internet, and how you do it is the eetu visa HB one, you know what you’re better than that. This is your domain. E two is where I went. But there is, we talked on my show I think you talked about five different pieces, called alphabet soup. But basically, by getting this e to visa which you’re creating a new business, or at least you’re creating a business. In the United States, and you’re creating jobs for Americans, through the program over a three year period, five year period. You can you can get access to a social security number, a working visa. So you can go. Like right now, if I went to there. I’m technically not shouldn’t be picking up a hammer and working on anything. I am a passive investor, the way I am right now, but if, as I became I’ve had an E two visa, it would open me up to having a more active role in. Not that I would necessarily want the active role, but it would also give me an ability to live there. Yeah, I could stay longer than don’t remember the exact number five months or whatever that I made you can go there, I can stay longer than my term, I can cross the border and have working visas. What dream run to go back and forth, is not necessarily to move here right, it’s just to have that flexibility right. The lending, and it’s the flexibility. Yes. So there’s two visas that that is really that that I focus on they’re really, they really allow you that flexibility that you wanted to eat to, and my client who just posted yesterday about this and he got his visa last Tuesday, didn’t eat one he’s in Calgary, and he is. He has no plans to move here his kids play hockey he doesn’t want to live in state but, and he’s not a real estate investor. He’s a business owner, he’s a joint venture expert, but not in real estate, but you know joint ventures which are like ventures but usually outside of COVID because all of COVID kind of sensitive. He does most of his events and makes a big bulk of his income from his us operations. So we got him this visa because the last thing you want is to be stopped in your tracks when you’re going to actually check out a property investment property, signed documents, run an event, you know, create business relationships, set up meetings, do closings and all of this. So the beautiful thing about that is that it’s a very really inexpensive way of accessing Mike Flynn says this social security number, the better credit, the favorable terms, the opportunity to potentially live here if you want, and to pick up a hammer and make money and and also not be treated. and this is a good thing for most Canadians, as a resident of the US. So it’s not a green card, and the beautiful beauty of that is faster and all the tax things that happen if you become a US resident suddenly it’s your worldwide income and all this. So it’s a very smart strategy for somebody that is investing in the US and wants that flexibility and I don’t promote it only for people and most people don’t realize this that what you have here is a lot more than that. And so it’s, you know, I give you kudos because you’re out here and outside of the box thinker because most people like what do I need a visa for, and it’s it’s really exactly what Glenn said it’s because you’re going to get access to such more such better terms more favorable terms and 98% of what you’re doing down here and you’re not, it’s not going to negatively impact you in Canada. So, that’s how they’re gonna treat you more. You’re gonna get more of the loan programs and other programs that Americans would get. And it would go both ways if you’re an American joining the Canada match, if you came here you would be left out of a lot of the stuff until you had the proper visas to be able to buy stuff because I’ve heard the other side they’re like well you’re kidding, I’m American, how do I do this in Canada, and that’s going to become a very big deal going forward. Yeah, and the E two is actually a bilateral visa. Both bilateral. So even though it’s not a visa it’s equally available to Americans that are investing in Canada or maybe that want to move there. I wonder why we won’t talk about politics, but it’s an interesting time here in the US and actually the podcast is launching the day after the election so your show will be probably live right then because I’m putting a few in in the pre launch space plan, do you have anything else that you’d like to share. Other than that, of course, I’d love you to share your Facebook group where people can go and follow you and join the group and learn. So tell us a bit about how they can reach you. Sure. My email is Glenn at Glenn with one in one, I get the two ends all the time we get missed emails It’s not my fault. Yeah, or the the the podcast or YouTube, or YouTube SoundCloud Spotify, Stitcher, iTunes, Google Play. Basically everything. And you can find me there where we, like I said, we teach stuff every week, or you get to listen to a story, and sometimes the stories actually can teach you a lot, too, because you can learn from other mistakes not one not want to make those mistakes or from you hear about a good thing someone will drop a name or have some sort of crazy lender or something there might be some tidbits that you can pull out of stories as well, just as even learn just as much from those. Yeah, I do you have a Facebook group, I honestly am not even sure what’s called A Canadian Investing in the US, it is not No, no it’s slightly different, because we are changing the name on it. But anyway, it’s something like that if you can find it when it’s called doors, I think, and then Glen just enter the UFC investing, or I don’t know it’s something like that we change the name like a dozen times. But it’s out there. Real Estate to it because that’s one problem with real estate. A lot of people don’t understand that it’s actually real estate show, taking some time to be with us. I appreciate it. Helping you on your journey and joint venture partners and others, and anybody that’s interested to register for the check it out. Please sign up for the, for the podcast and make sense and spread the word. Okay, as well as it’s called invest, investing across borders. Our focus is definitely on Canada us investors although not exclusively I am an immigration lawyer both in Canada and the US as well as a corporate lawyer and a realtor and I love working with people that think outside of the box like Mr Glen Sutherland. So thank you again, and have a wonderful day and stay safe that is the most important message that we all have. Thank you.