Transcription of Episode

Lauren Cohen 0:02
Good morning everybody from sunny South Florida. I am here today with my good friend Doug Sandler, who I was supposed to actually meet in person in February in Cabo San Lucas. But unfortunately, that trip got postponed. Why? Because the Canadian borders closed and the Canadian airports closed until suddenly, the host of the trip was unable to make it happen. But Doug is actually an amazing, amazing podcast developer, podcast designer, podcast creator, and my other podcast ologists and he’s my podcasting coach. Imagine that. So I’m Lauren Cohen, and I’m here with investing across borders, where we teach you how to invest live, work, and play across borders. I am an international lawyer and real estate expert. And I just got coined as the proactive strategist speaker. Right. So this is my new name when I speak the proactive strategist. So Doug, why don’t you say hello, and introduce yourself with your fancy schmancy microphone there and oh, my gosh, fun stuff.

Doug Sandler 1:06
Hey, Lauren. Well, you know, if you’re going to be a pro, you got to look like one, and reall sound like a pro. Right? So I’m Doug and I’ve been in the podcasting space for many years. Obviously, you and I know each other Lauren. I’m speaking to our community and your community. And what’s so beautiful about podcasting is it absolutely can extend beyond international borders. And I love being worldwide. 175 countries our Nice Guys on Business podcast is heard. And this has been a fun run. And I love the podcasting space. I’m ready to dig in and start talking about podcasting with your community.

Lauren Cohen 1:38
Well, that’s wonderful, because although we talk about investing, the reality is that when you’re investing across borders, having a podcast is a part of that. And I’ve been featured on hundreds of podcasts because everybody’s really intrigued. Oh, you can actually invest outside of your home country. How does that happen? And part of that getting your message out and bringing in, you know, attracting people to make investments and attracting people to participate in your opportunities can happen through podcasting. Doug, what got you into podcasting in the first place?

Doug Sandler 2:08
Well, back in 2015, I wrote a book called Nice Guys Finish First. And I didn’t have the deep pockets to invest in a publicist or a PR company to get out there and really promote it. My publisher was looking for my help with a connection to my community, which at the time was small, but growing. And so I thought podcasting would be a really cool way to do it. But I knew nothing about the podcasting space. So a buddy of mine, Strickland Bonner, who I had a relationship with for about 20 years. We just decided that we start this similar brand, the nice guys on business podcast, and that was 1200 episodes ago, over six years ago, and we’re loving being in podcasting. So I really did it as a promotional tool for a book that I had just released.

Lauren Cohen 2:54
Cool. Well, I absolutely love that. And it’s amazing, because you know, the stories of how people come to do what they do, are never what you really expect I mean, you know, it’s kind of like by force, kind of like becoming an entrepreneur. It’s like, I didn’t have the money for a publicist. So I decided to create some another way to get to my community. So when you first started your podcast, obviously, you were developing it for your community and to extend your reach in how many countries are you currently featured? On 75?

Doug Sandler 3:26
Yeah, The Nice Guys on Businesses is heard in 175 countries. And what’s really interesting about it, Lauren, is that when I first started podcasting, it was to promote my book. And in the experience that we had over the first 200 episodes, which was the first couple of years of podcasting, we really did not make any money podcasting, I made a couple of bucks. Every once a while on my book, I would say, it was literally 17 months before we figured out that podcasting for one of three reasons. Yeah, the strategy, they get into it to build community to grow influence or to make money, and we kind of lumped everybody into the same bucket. And it was challenging, because we really had no strategy. It’s kind of like, Hey, I’m about to start a yogurt stand. But I have no idea how to make yogurt or how to get my customers or do any of those things. And when you do that, and you treat podcasting, like a hobby, it’s going to deliver exactly the results that we had, which was hobby results. And until we really focused on our strategy of monetization. We were, I wouldn’t say we were unsuccessful, but we certainly weren’t successful in the monetization side of the business. So it did take us over 17 months, 18 months, when we figured out the formula, what we really needed in these three buckets, community influence and money when we started to focus on the money bucket. The faucet turned on, to the tune of 35 grand that first month that we tried it and then we said this is it, it was like Shangri La. The skies opened, the sunshine down on us and was like, oh, and every month since then it’s been just as good or bad.

Lauren Cohen 5:00
So what do you think like you said you had the influence the community in the monetization bucket now, you obviously built your influence and community, which then allowed you to open the monetization bucket up, right? Because if you didn’t have the influence and community, you wouldn’t have been able to monetize. It’s kind of like all three.

Intro/Outro 5:19
Well, they’re all byproducts of each other, which is interesting. So you’re right there, but let me just kind of help you think about it a little bit differently. When we started to listen to the messages of the people and understand the type of people that were sitting in that guest seat, we realized that we were missing an opportunity. So we did not need a big audience. And we did not need any influencer status. But we needed to understand that person sitting in the guest seat was a potential opportunity for joint venture partnerships, affiliate relationships, turning those guests into clients. So now we’re listening to potential people sitting in that guest seat with two ears, one, how can their message best serve my community? But secondly, how can the words that they are saying help me understand whether they would be a potential client or a potential partner of mine, once I did that, the next 200 interviews that I did, I was not focused on getting those VIP people into it, because everybody has a podcast, or like, Oh, I’m gonna get the biggest name that I possibly can to help me get my community large. The challenge with that is that they’re not going to help you promote, they’re good for your ego, but they are not good for your bank account. And when I realized that, and we started to focus on that person sitting in the guest seat, it really didn’t even matter how many people were in our audience at that point. I mean, we have 1000s of listeners. But at the time, when we had dozens of listeners, we were still making bank, hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year, because we understood the value of the guests seat, not necessarily the value of our community, our community is great, and I love our community. But those aren’t the people that we’re selling to. And those are the people that we’re developing relationships with. They’re anonymous and unknown to us.

Lauren Cohen 6:58
So your community, let’s go to that for a minute. So what is considered your community versus your sphere of influence? Is your community like, we know each other through multiple different communities? Okay, right. What are those communities, your community, the joint venture communities where you partner with others? Or is that your influence community? Because they’re going to take your message and share it? How does that what’s the differentiation?

Doug Sandler 7:23
So there’s a lot of overlap between communities, especially as you’re as you’re talking about them right now, our joint venture community is absolutely a community that we would love to listen, because they are the ones that are highly interested in the products and services that we have potentially for their clients. Right? There are people that instead of being anonymous and unknown, someone like you, I might have in my guest seat, so that I can say to you, hey, Lauren, this is really cool. You kind of approach the same community that I do, you have the same market that I have, to a degree, why don’t we do a joint venture partnership and and i will promote your services, you will promote mine, let’s figure out how we can do some work together, I might have that person, that person like you sitting in that guest seat so that we can share that opportunity. And we can build a relationship for 20 or 30 minutes while I’m doing my podcast episode as well. And that has been a key factor in the show. I mean, I’ve probably done 900 interviews over the last 1200 episodes 100 or so have become people that I’ve developed relationships with, imagine getting just one lead from 100 people every month, or even just once in a lifetime. 100 100 leads a year 100 leads a year potentially could could be very, very lucrative for someone depending on what your services that you provide are.

Lauren Cohen 8:34
100 leads a year for me is a very big ticket. Now, you know, I mean, obviously might well not obviously, but my my services are higher touch higher level. However, one of the things that I think has become so obvious, more obvious to me, post pandemic or if we’re still in the pandemic or whatever, after I have my second shot, I feel like I’m through it. Because I can go home to Toronto to see my family for Passover. Not that I’m complaining Just a little. The one thing you know, we met kind of right at the beginning of the pandemic when I was promoting when I was helping people get money through the SBA and you’re like, oh, there’s a way to do that. And I was happy to do whatever I could to help you. But we met at a time when I was in the joint venture world. Certainly working with joint venture influencers, helping them get fiza is helping them with all that. But I wasn’t really drinking the kool aid of the advantages of joint ventures and as a lawyer, it didn’t I couldn’t really understand now there are other lawyers in our space, not a lot. Because lawyers don’t naturally collaborate. I naturally collaborate, right? I don’t compete. So I thought to myself, there’s something missing and let me tell you that the thing that’s come out of this whole pandemic for me, business wise other than creating this model that is super cool, immigrate through real estate, which everybody’s I literally had three calls this morning, oh, how do you do that? So it’s exciting and fun. But the other thing is this relationships, these joint venture and affiliate relationships have become so, so, so critical. Like, you know, I help you promote you help me promote everybody wins, everybody gets clients, everybody provides impact and offer services and we all help each other and, and we have a responsibility to each other to deliver 100% that’s the distinction because you came into the joint venture space and offered a lot of a lot of I wouldn’t say freebies, but a lot of perks. A lot of opportunities.

Doug Sandler 10:35
Well, if you if you think about, you know, our good friend, J phys, Ed, or common friend that we have, you know, the, the whole joint venture philosophy is a philosophy of, I’ll go first. And when you approach a relationship with, I’m not concerned about what you can give me, let me share with you the value that I might be able to have or share with your community or to share with you, you know, we offered our podcast launch program to everybody that was in the program in the JV program, and we did it free, because we knew that a certain amount of those people, even if you give them something free, they’re gonna say, Hey, I appreciate the free is or I’d rather pay for something that right, exactly, I’d rather pay for editing, I’d rather pay for the lunch, I don’t want to do the work myself. A small percentage of people would do that in an automated program is a dime a dozen. I mean, it’s easy for me to give something free because it doesn’t take any labor for me to do that have created the program once and can share it multiple times without any additional effort. It’s when people raise their hand and say I want a little bit more. I mean, we didn’t go at it necessarily with the whole idea of while we’re looking to try to get business we look. I mean, we did but we didn’t. We weren’t, we weren’t like, I don’t think that we looked at it and said let’s be salesy about it. We did it from a genuine perspective of, hey, if we help enough people get what they want. I mean, Zig Ziglar help enough people get what they want, you’ll get what you want. And that’s, that’s the way that I feel about it. And that’s kind of how I’ve, you know, when I wrote my book, nice guys finish first. I mean, that’s the whole philosophy behind nice guys finish first build a relationship and the business will come.

Lauren Cohen 12:00
Yeah. And I think that that’s really important to note, because when when Doug and Strick offered this program in the in the in the JV ology global lounge, which is J facettes, higher level coaching program, I took advantage, like so many of my colleagues and I came to one class and I came to a second class and I’m a super busy entrepreneur running multiple businesses, a single mom, and I was like, by class number three, I was done, right? It’s like, Okay, I’m not doing this dog health, what can you do? And so I’m one of those people. And the truth is that there’s a lot of us. And that’s not that’s not necessarily why you do it. But it’s kind of like when I’m giving away I do you know, for all kinds of free webinars masterclasses and this, and when you give something from your heart, because you want to help people know, and it resonates, and then they come back and they know they can trust you like, I know, you’re never going to take advantage of me saying, Doug, I can’t do this. I know Lauren, so how can we fix it?

Doug Sandler 13:02
Well, right. And it’s it’s a it’s a common, you know, you try to find the common solution, the solution that works to the benefit of your customer and the solution that works for your company. And if you can find mutual ground on that everybody’s happy. You know, when people sell, when people sell, don’t look at it as a potential of what can I win over my customer, I’d rather have a mutually beneficial experience where we’re providing a service, that’s a value that you need, or you want, and we can provide it. And when you exchange money for that, I think that there is a certain amount of energy that money provides. And when you’re able to have the energetic exchange of money, in exchange, it went, especially when you’re in business, and this is what you’re doing. It makes sense. You know, we as people, the things that are our gifts, whether it’s your gift of understanding law, or understanding podcasting, or understanding how to, you know, bag, a grocery bag, if that is your gift to the world you feel so inclined to want to give it because it’s your gift. And all I say is just know that you don’t have to give away everything that you do. How many pick your brain sessions do you get? Hey, can I just ask you some questions about how the international law works, I mean, and then you find yourself four hours later, go into this rabbit hole, charge for those services and you will and you will be it’s you’re doing a disservice when you give away the gift

Lauren Cohen 14:16
that is 100% so it’s funny that you say that because about a month ago, I had this epiphany and I said I am no longer doing free concerts. Okay, so but somehow people find a back way into my calendar for that, you know, that strategy call that I might have with a Doug Sandler right or Strickland Bonner as a partnership call or I might have with a fellow ExP realtor, as a partnership call and so like but but but I will say to that, to that, to that end. today. I have a contract about to be signed with somebody that slipped into my calendar last week also happens, you know, yeah, and, you know, the thing is that there’s there’s kind of rules and then there There’s exceptions to the rules and making sure that you are flexible enough because everybody has a place. And like Doug said, it could be the guy bagging the groceries or could be the guy podcasting. It could be the girl giving you the international legal advice. You don’t know if that guy bagging groceries. And this is Nancy Matthews, my very good friends philosophy, the one you don’t know if that guy bagging groceries, if his or her dad or mom or sister or brother might be the biggest podcaster in the world, and open the door for dog or Lauren or whatever grill does when you started monetizing. What was the monetization? Like when did you decide to become a podcast? COACH? a podcast? ologists. How what when was that transition? And when? How did that happen?

Doug Sandler 15:41
So, I would say, a year and a half into podcasting. Someone in our audience, our community reached out to me and said, Hey, I know this is not your gig, but you seem to be really good at it podcast. And can you teach me how to do what you had done? His name is Lou Diamond. He was our first client. Yeah. And I think you know, Lou, right. And and, and Lou said, I have no idea. He wanted to start a show based upon his brand, thrive loud. And I said, Okay, Lou, but I gotta be honest, I have no idea how to charge you for it. So can we just maybe have that meeting? What like, what I would charge you for this and, and what it would look like for you in order for it to be successful. And we had that meeting. About three months later, we launched this podcast, I think he paid us somewhere in the area of about $3,000. So it was 500 bucks a month for six months total of time between production and launch. I want to Yeah, we all everybody wants his deal now. So we we went back and and we said this was pretty cool. And that was Louis the first of and now I keep saying 200. But it’s probably closer to 250. It’s about 250 launches later. This is what we have decided that we wanted to, you know, pivot our business because while the book business was good, and my speaking business is good, thank God, I had something after the speaking business because my speaking business completely went flatlined when we when it came to COVID. Right. But the podcasting business has gone through the roof.

Lauren Cohen 17:06
Literally everybody has a podcast. Yep. Everybody has a clubhouse right.

Doug Sandler 17:11
Yeah, but clubhouse isn’t really my gig. You know, I’ve tried it a couple times. And it’s okay, but a lot of my community I have to, you know, you have to shift where they’re listening to the your message. And it’s like, I don’t know, it just wasn’t my gig. So, you know, it’s like, Hey, are you on? Are you on Instagram? Yeah, I’m on Instagram. But I but I really focus more on Facebook, because that’s where my mark I want to go where am I wanted his course, of course. So um, so that was about a year and a half into it. And then what trip the switch after that was understanding that there are more losers than then then I thought that were out there people that want to launch podcasts that needed some help. So we went to a conference 150 people at the conference 118 people actually got to shake their hand and meet them, invite them on my show, I did give them some hoops that they needed to jump through, they needed to listen to the show. They needed to, to rate and review this show that you need to subscribe and they need to share with me what their plans were to promote my my show once on their social media communities, our audience grew. And all those people, the 118 40 of them actually jumped through those hoops of the 47 became clients at five grand apiece, in 30 days, we made $35,000 that’s without having launched the show yet. This was a new show that we were launching because I could not fit 40 people onto the nice guys on business, which at that point was doing, you know, we already had like six months of leeway on our you know, of runway on our on our episodes. So we started a new show. And we tested this model out, the model worked freakin amazingly well. And now we teach that model to other people.

Lauren Cohen 18:44
And it works. It does work and it’s a nice system. And that’s what I like is that everybody’s nice, and everybody is amenable and everybody deals with, you know, challenging. I don’t think I’m not challenging. Not with you at least, but challenging. There’s challenges.

Doug Sandler 19:01
Everybody has their own set of challenges. It could be a tech challenge, it could be guest management challenge, it could be a monetization challenge. Some people might want to have VIP guests on their show. So how do you handle those, there’s a bunch of different strategies depending on what you’re looking for, that would dictate how you handle your show.

Lauren Cohen 19:18
Give me five of your top strategies for monetization podcast because you know, not just I need to know and Doug has done one on ones with me but sometimes, you know, you have to hear the message a few times. Give me your top five strategies for monetization.

Doug Sandler 19:34
Well, it’s interesting you say that because we actually have as a gift to your community. We have five ways to make money podcasting and you can actually get that and I’ll be happy to go through the list of them but I don’t go into a lot. I don’t want to go into a lot of details here on because of time but is the link that you go to, but simply put the best ways to make money average tising our number one, you got to focus on that guest seat. So the guest seat is a guest the client strategy which is freakin amazing at turning your guests into clients. Secondly, joint venture partnerships with people either in your community or people that are sitting in that guest seat, affiliate relationships that way you are, you know, you have a service that complements mine, let’s promote your service on my show, I make a small piece of everything that you sell through my through my community, let’s see what would be another great one, selling your products or services to your community building a course building a program building a something so that you’re actually putting that you know that that bug in their ear as they’re listening to you and they want to potentially buy the products and services that you have. She’s there’s there’s literally 20 some ways that we have discovered that you can make money podcasting. And so those those handful of ways that I just gave you are really just the tip of the iceberg. And I encourage everybody not to focus just on Oh, I’m going to turn all my guests into clients, because that gets a little bit irritating to your community listening.

Lauren Cohen 21:04
I got to tell you a funny story. I have a client, he’s from Ottawa, and I don’t even he found me on a podcast I did with a Canadian guy about asset protection and stuff. And so he found me and we’ve been talking super nice guys, dentist, you know, successful wants to move to the US and is a real estate investor and so on, you know, perfect client. No, he told me every day when I talked to him, I talked to him every day. He tells me he’s going to listen to this podcast, when I’m interviewing x. And I’m like, I gotta keep the podcast coming so I can keep working out because he says every every, like, at least once a week. This is one of my podcasts. He says there is workout podcast

Doug Sandler 21:52
you can’t disappoint him. You can’t not put it like john is gonna not get my episode. He’s not gonna work out that day if I don’t release an episode.

Lauren Cohen 21:58
So, you know, I’ve always been challenged. And I’m just being transparent here because my podcast is relatively new. And I haven’t necessarily 100% monetized it. Yep, yeah, I’m so and I sometimes feel uncomfortable, even though it’s my podcast, and I can do whatever I want to say, oh, make sure you subscribe and give me five stars and do this now. Now I did start and I think you did this. Anyway, you did this when I first started, but I gotta get your partner to do it. But I did start to ask my guests to please do that. Because at the end of the day, you know, it’s it’s got to be a win win. I have not been as good at asking my guests to cross promote. How do you do that? And also, when you’re the podcaster, how do you do that? tactfully?

Doug Sandler 22:49
Okay. So that’s, it’s a great question. And let’s walk through it for a moment. Because I think oftentimes, in our heads as new podcasters we feel like our guest is doing us a favor by coming on our show. And what I would say to you is if you understand you own a frickin media company, Lauren, and while you may have only a few listeners, early on in your run, when you’re look, we’re 1200 fucking episodes, sorry, 1200 episodes into our show, right? Sorry, we’re late because I started to get passionate about this business. We have 1200 episodes, we had seven damn episodes, seven damn downloads on that first episode. I’m like, we have 4 million now.

Lauren Cohen 23:33
Wow, I keep those 4 million man Come on You don’t you actually,

Doug Sandler 23:38
I’d rather have 20 engaged listeners than 20,000 people that do jack squat. So, dispel the myth that you need a large audience to monetize your show, dispel the myth that you’re that people are doing you a favor by doing coming on your show, you’re doing them a favor by sharing the message with your community as small or large as it is. So let me answer your question directly though, the way that I get people to promote my show, is I hold it as a leverage a carrot before I accept their application on the show. So somebody called we right now get about 20 to 30 applications every week to come on our show. In the beginning, while I was reaching out to people to come on the show and saying, hey, I’d love to have you on the show to share your message with my community, I would still say to them, we do have some rules. And our calls are nice guy rules, because it’s the nice guys on business or nice guy rules. Really simple. You got to have a microphone because if you don’t sound good, my community is going to tune out

Lauren Cohen 24:35

Doug Sandler 24:36
You’ve got it, you’ve got to rate and review the show, because why would you want to come on a show that’s got no ratings. That’s why we have over close to 405 star ratings on our nice guys on business podcast. So you have to rate the show, you have to listen to an episode of the show. I’m not asking too much. I’m giving you a 30 minute block of my time to share your message. I want to make sure you understand what my message is and how I present to my community. So when you up into the environment, you’re comfortable. And the last one, the important one is this, share with me what your plans are to promote my episode with you to your community, because I’m going to ask you questions that are going to be fun and bit different and a little bit more unique than every other interviewer. So I want you to share what your plans are. And when you have those four rules, and you use them, do you understand and acknowledge these rules? When they check off? Yes, on the application. after the episode airs, I have the right now, because they’ve given me the right by saying Yes, they’re going to do it, I have the right to go back to them and say, Hey, remember when you said you were going to promote this, you gently you’re going to say this, I haven’t seen any promotion on social media, promote this to your community, like you said you were going to do I fulfilled my end of the obligation. Now you fulfill yours. And it just makes good sense to do that before you give them access to your schedule rather than after because after the episode airs. It’s like, Oh, please, please, please, will you promote my episode, they’re not going to do it. And if you use it as a carrot before, it absolutely is a good leverage for you to get people on your show.

Lauren Cohen 26:04
It’s not necessarily automatically enforceable, but at least you have their commitment.

Doug Sandler 26:09
And the other thing is this, I want you to flip the switch in your brain with not just you learn but everybody that’s in podcasting that listens to this or when people try to figure out well, how do you grow your community, you grow your community on the shoulders of people that have built big communities, right? Remember those three buckets, money, influence and community, that community bucket? I invite people on my show specifically because they have large communities, some of them some of my guests. And I use that leverage as my tool for growing my community. Because when I let’s say you have 100,000 Twitter followers, and I really promote on Twitter, and I love Twitter, and I look at you and I say, hey, she’s got 100,000 followers, when I invite you on my show, I say, hey, Lauren, I’d love to have you on my show. Here’s the deal. I have a good community, it’s a growing community even knew it’s a growing community. It’s a growing community. I’d love to have you on my show to share your share your message with my community, would you be open to coming on the show, and promoting it to your community as well, when that’s the agreement. It’s very challenging for them to come back after the episode airs and said, Well, I’m just not I didn’t like the episode, right? Look, it was freaking you, dude, I asked you questions, you answer the questions. Let’s get this thing promoted together. And let’s blast the crap out of it. You’ve also got to give them the tools, you’ve got to give them social media posts. You’ve got to give them some snippets, you got to give them some quotes. You got to make it look right. And sound right, which is again, why I have people show up arriving with the microphone and having it sounding good as well.

Lauren Cohen 27:34
Yeah, I remember that very first day when I did show up to that group call and you were teaching us or sharing with us what microphone to get. And I was on Amazon, as I always am on Amazon.

Doug Sandler 27:45
Well, when you provide and present your message in a haphazard way, because you have a podcast and you feel obligated to podcast, podcasting is not a side activity. We’ve made over a million dollars with our podcast, don’t you think that I want to treat this like a million dollar business? For sure. So for me, it’s like, hey, look, I’m going to do this professionally. And I hope that my guest arrives professionally not be by happenstance. But because I’ve told them how to arrive and what to expect. And when you do it, like it’s a side business over here on the side, you’re going to get a hobby result, I want a business result from my business, a podcasting.

Lauren Cohen 28:21
And that then takes me full circle to what I do, which is helping people invest across borders, because a lot of people look at that as a hobby. And they wonder why they can’t get a visa. And I’m like, Well, if you’re treating it as a hobby, why would they give you a visa, you need to be running a business. So real estate investing, there’s two types, there’s one that’s passive, and one that’s active. So when you transition to a business, your business is going to be much more successful. It’s true of any startup. It’s true of anything. And for me the podcast at the beginning, I was kind of like, Oh, well, I’ll just get some interviews in whatever. Now. It’s actually something I look forward to. And now I’m seeing some traction. And I’m seeing people like my client who’s watching it when he’s listening to it when he’s at the gym, and other people that are saying, Oh, I heard you and you know, at first, I know that you helped me pick the title, I didn’t know how appropriate, the title would really be investing across borders, who knew it would be like the perfect title. And the reality is, investing does not just mean real estate, or it doesn’t mean business investing can mean podcasting because that podcast, that message is going to 175 countries that Doug is delivering, and God Willing that I’m delivering to to to 175 countries of people that want to invest and build businesses and go global and take their message global and that’s what Doug is teaching us to do.

Doug Sandler 29:45
Can I play a simple exercise with you for just a second? We have a moment or two. Okay, sure. All right, let’s do this exercise because I want to, I want to again, I want to, I want to get you in the mindset of and maybe if it’s okay, I want to coach you through something just Take five minutes to do it, but I’d love to do it. Okay, so the person that is your ideal avatar, the ideal client for buying what you have? Can you put that a person like that in your brain right now? Yes. Okay. And can you give me maybe the first name? It can be a fictitious first name, but just like, okay, Joe. So Joe, is this person, this guy that potentially is that is a great potential client of yours. In the lifetime value of Joe, for your business. What do you think that could earn you a Joe? And over the course of a lifetime if you had that kind of $50,000? Yeah. Okay, great. Do you think that Joe has similar experiences in investing across borders, either positive or negative? to your community that’s out there. So do you think that Okay, cool. And do you think that Joe has a pretty interesting story that Joe could tell me about his lifetime? All right, cool. So do you think it would be a value to you to have a conversation with Joe, just in general, just to build a relationship with Joe so you can get to know what Joe loves and hates and his strengths and all that other stuff? Do you think that would be a value?

Lauren Cohen 31:08

Doug Sandler 31:11
So when Joe who is a $50,000, potential client of yours wants to share his message? Or if you want to go out and find Joe’s more Joe’s that are out there? Do you think that your community could relate to the problems that Joe is having?

Lauren Cohen 31:27

Doug Sandler 31:28
Okay, so what I want you to do is, before you invite the next person to sit in the guest seat, I want you to listen to Joe with two ears. One Here is what message and what experiences of Joe have that your community can relate to, but also asking questions during the interview as Hey, is it in as it relates to investing across borders? Joe? what some of the stuff that you’re struggling in struggling with what some of the stuff that you still want to be able to do that you’re not doing right now? there? He’s answering your question. The beauty of this is the microphone is truth serum. So instead of you calling up Joe right now and saying, Hey, Joe, I’m Lauren Cohen, I have a podcast called investing across borders. We we help entrepreneurs, you know, invest, invest internationally so that they can declare residency in state in other countries in foreign countries. Would you be interested in hearing about my services? He’s gonna say no, because you’re like, you’re a salesperson, right? Yeah. Who the heck are you? If you say, Hey, Joe, my name is Lauren Cole, and I have a podcast on best investing across borders. I’d love to share your story and your message with my community, would you be open to sharing it? And he might say, Sure, but what why would I be of value to him? Because you? Because Yeah, who am I? Because what you’re gonna say is your story is not unlike many people that are out there right now that are trying to figure out opportunities across borders and investing. I’d love just to share your story. Would you be open to that? He’s going to say yes, because he has an ego, every Joe has an ego. And so when I look at people in the podcasting space, I’m thinking about it. And they’re thinking, How am I supposed to sell products and services to my community that’s out there. They’re anonymous, I don’t know who they are, I gotta wait for them to reach me. And I’d say stop waiting for your community, go and find who your ideal client is. Put them in the guest seat, share their message with your community, asking them questions that help you ascertain whether they’re qualified to buy what you are selling. And at the end of the interview, don’t jump down their throat and say, Oh, my God, all that stuff, investing across borders, I can help you with that. I’m great with this. This is the stuff I do. And it’s $50,000. I know, you’re going to just say to them something like the stuff that you were talking on in the show, was that real world stuff? Is that stuff that you’re still working on? Would you? Is this something that you that it would be a value to you? And he’s going to say? Yes, say, great, and you’re just going to hang up, or you’re going to disconnect your zoom call? in three weeks, four weeks, a month from now, the podcast episode, you have a four week window that you still have to communicate with Joe episodes coming out? Hey, remember that stuff that we were talking about? On the show? I’m gonna send you something I think would be a value. It’s Episode Number 32 on X, Y, and Z in Mexico, so that you can read about it. hear about that? Okay, cool. In three weeks time, here’s another episode in four weeks time when the episode airs. Is that stuff still going on in your world? I’d love to sit down and have a follow up meeting with you would you be open to that? That is a process and a system in place that when you understand it, and it’s locked and loaded every time you’re a killer salesperson, all you’re doing is being you you’re being a nice person, you’re doing what you do. People fall in LA and and imagine this, and this is where I’ll end it. Imagine having 20 to 30 to 40 people every week, raising their hand to say I want to be a guest on your show. What they’re actually saying is I want to be a client client. Yeah. They just don’t realize it. Yeah. And that’s the beauty of podcasting is that it’s it’s interview based selling, and if you handle it right, you will never have to prospect again.

Lauren Cohen 34:58
I have one question. Before we close up, so on that model that you just explained, is there a way in the podcasting world? And you’re probably say, Yes, I’m gonna guess. But is there a way to have like a almost like a compilation book, but have a compilation podcast where you do 10 minute interviews of three people in one week or something like that?

Intro/Outro 35:19
Yeah, why not? Absolutely. I mean, it, it, doesn’t it? Why not just put out three episodes? I mean, you can do it, you can do a single episode. That’s an hour and a half long and 330 minute segments of the show, I think your community if you’re focused on your community, and I do try to do these, these interviews so that I am I’m understanding two angles, I’m understanding the angle of what is my community hearing that’s listening to the show? And how am I best serving my business by putting these people into my, into my on my client list. And if you do three of them in a row, oftentimes it might wear down your community, what I would hope that you were able to do over a very short period of time again, with our help Lauren happy to share this with you is help you understand how to qualify people well enough so that you don’t have to do 3x, the interviews, you can do one interview, or what do you do? Do you do a weekly show right now? Okay, a weekly show, you could do two, maybe three of those weekly shows, over the course of the month, could be focused on the guests seat right now in monetization. And you could do two interviews a month that are based upon that close one of them and have a $50,000 lifetime value of a client imagine closing. That’s why I always say to people, how many times would you want to open up this microphone, if every time you opened it up, you made 50 grand?

Lauren Cohen 36:40
A lot.

Doug Sandler 36:41
So I think about the other stuff that we do all of the other marketing that we do. And I’m like, I’m shutting down the rest of the my marketing business, because this is now my marketing tool. And I spent so little time actually building my business because I can spend more time having a great time having great conversations with guests that are sitting in the guest seat. I don’t do much social media, I don’t do money. You know, webinars, I don’t do a lot of, you know, other joint ventures, because it’s too easy to do it this way. It’s too easy. Which is why, you know, yeah, you could do three interviews and do it as a three segment show. But let me get you really good at qualifying people by asking him some key questions before you invite them onto your show, to know if they’re highly qualified to buy what you have.

Lauren Cohen 37:23
That’s definitely a great way to spend the sales into podcasting. So, I’ve learned a lot, I made some notes. I’m going to upgrade my questions. And I’m going to thank you, Doug, for always being a nice guy and always being there. And always being willing to adjust your schedule for my crazy schedule.

Doug Sandler 37:45
That I do, we adjust. I didn’t even remember yesterday.

Lauren Cohen 37:47
It’s okay. I thank you anyway. So this is Doug Sandler. Doug, how do people reach you, although we’ll obviously have it in the show notes that your team will prepare?

Doug Sandler 37:56
That’s right, that’s right. The best way is, is just to download that document. It’s actually it’s a mini course that we send your way. It’s called five ways to make money podcasting, and it’s at the number five, And we’ll give you the mini course, it’s usually sold for 300 bucks, but I would love to give it to your community because I think it would be a value to them to to listen and all of our contact information is is in there as well.

Lauren Cohen 38:21
And then you’ll learn how to spread your message across borders, spread your message within the US spread your message everywhere, because podcasting really is everywhere. And it’s been so so incredible to have launched a podcast during COVID to allow me to get my message across borders. So I am Lauren Cohen, I would invite you to subscribe to my podcast on Apple on Google and Spotify and all the other main sites and wherever you get your podcasts.

Lauren Cohen 38:52
It’s called investing across borders. I am Lauren Cohen international legal and real estate expert. And I am signing off for today where we teach you how to invest live work and play across borders. And it would be my pleasure to set up some time to speak with you to learn about how invaluable This podcast is and to also learn about your needs for cross border investing. I thank you so much for joining us today. And I’m signing off thanks again dog for your time. Bye for now.